A question for mountain biking Oppo's

"You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much" (youcantellafinn) 08/07/2015 at 09:27 • Filed to: None

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I’ve got a 2006 Giant Trance 1 that is in good shape. The gearing has a weird gap right where I want to be on long uphills. I can’t get a low enough gear on the middle chainring and I can’t get to a high enough gear on the little chainring before the chain binds. Is it worth throwing money at a bike this old and swapping out the drivetrain for a 1x11?

Pro biker video for your time.

maximillious > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:37

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I mean it depends on your budget? Is it a 26er or 29er? If I was in your boat and I had the cash... Say around a grand.... I would go out buy something brand new with update components and 29’s

OPPOsaurus WRX > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:37

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that is kinda odd. If the bikes in good shape why not just replace the gears? I’m sure its a lot cheaper than a whole new bike.

GTI Sprinks > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:42

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Don’t know if i would throw a bunch of the money at the problem. I think first move i would consider would be losing the triple at the crankset. Most anybody will tell you that 2 up front is more than enough if that is your dedicated mountain bike and not some weird mountain bike/hybrid commuter bike.
I love the 1x setups, i don’t know if i would advise going to a 1x11. I believe the issue you run into is the dropout spacing in the back is 135mm for 9- and 10- speeds. 11 speed went wider to like 142 (although quick research shows it’s typically with spacers to get it their while still using same freehub spacing as 9 and 10).

Options to pursue i think would be to go 1x9 first (cheapest, use either current small or medium chainring or something in between). If you dig that, and still aren’t happy with the jump in gearing, price out new rear cluster versus 1x11 setups. 11speed will be quite pricey as still new hype. 9 or 10 speed stuff will likely be available for cheaper through bike swaps or ebay, forums, etc.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:50

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Going to agree with gdTDI, 2 up front has always been plenty on all my bikes (not counting the DH rig)

I’m sure you could find a decent 2x setup used on pinkbike.com on the cheap.

davedave1111 > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:50

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I’d say just changing the cassette and/or a chainring should let you get the ratio you want.

Apart from that, I’d rather ride with 2x6/7 than 1x11, personally. And it’s more age-appropriate for your bike. Go with a long-cage derailleur and you can have a pretty wide spread between the two front rings, so you can go on the high side with ratios on the big ring, use that most of the time, and then switch to the small ring for steep/long hills.

bob and john > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:51

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1-9 (or 10) on the back is a taller ratio then 2-1

what it sounds like is a chain issue. how old is it? might it be time for a new one?or your derailleurs set right?

instead of throwing money at a whole new set, figure out what wrong with your current one.

PowderHound > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 09:54

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That will definitely solve it but cost a good deal of money. Might be able to recoup some from selling the old drivetrain but not many want a 3x set up as it’s going the way of the dodo more or less. If your other option is buying a new bike it’s quite the step up in price. Now is the time to do it though. Tons of end of/mid season sales! By the way I have a 1x11 and absolutely love it.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > PowderHound 08/07/2015 at 10:30

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A 1x11 swap would end up being somewhere are $600ish from my quick searching over the past couple days. Expensive, but a lot cheaper than a new bike. Having ridden a nice bike I don’t see myself being happy with something that would cost less than $3k or so and I just can’t justify spending that kind of money on a bike any more.

A buddy of mine is just getting started biking and I could definitely sell him my drivetrain if I swap, so getting a little bit of money back wouldn’t be a problem. I’m just wondering if it is really worth dumping that much money into a 9-10 year old bike, but at the same time can’t really justify buying something newer. A drivetrain swap seems like a semi-reasonable middle ground at the moment.

What kind of riding do you do? Mine is mostly XC/trail riding and I wonder if 1x11/1x10 is a good answer for me. The biggest elevation change around here is around 1000’ vertical, and that is always broken up into a few different climbing sections. There are a few long grinds and that is where I get my butt kicked because I can’t find a happy gear.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > maximillious 08/07/2015 at 10:35

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I wouldn’t be happy on a $1000 bike. If I were to get a new bike it would probably be something along the lines of a Giant Trance Advanced that would run around $5k. That isn’t something that I can justify anymore as I just don’t ride enough. Doing a 1x11 drivetrain swap would end up running around $600 or so and is a more reasonable option since I’m happy with my bike outside of not being able to find a happy gear on long grinding uphills.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > bob and john 08/07/2015 at 10:36

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The problem with the current setup is that I can’t find a happy gear on long grinds. My middle chainring doesn’t go quite low enough and my small chainring can’t get to a high enough gear before there is too much chain crossing and it binds up.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > GTI Sprinks 08/07/2015 at 10:41

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Solid advice. Maybe I will just keep my current gear but lose some chainrings up front and swap it to something between my small and middle chainring. I’m a little concerned that will lose me too much of the bottom end, but if it is heading the right way that is a pretty cheap way to see if I gain anything before committing to a full swap. One chainring is a lot cheaper than a chainring, cassette, driver, rear derailluer and whatever I’m forgetting.

bob and john > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 10:42

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most group sets are going to be the same gears anyways, so even if you throw a whole new set of gears, you might still have the same problem.

have you considered just swapping out the front rings?

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > OPPOsaurus WRX 08/07/2015 at 10:43

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Hugely cheaper than a new bike. Part of the problem is that when I bought the bike I had some stuff swapped off it and the bike shop put on a short cage derailleur. That makes the chain bind up a lot sooner than it should when cross chaining.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/07/2015 at 10:44

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I think I’ll try his idea of swapping a chainring and going to a 1x9 setup for testing purposes for now. That would be my cheapest option and give me a good idea how much I would gain by going to 1x10 or 1x11.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > bob and john 08/07/2015 at 10:47

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The problem isn’t so much the gearing as the fact I can’t get to half of the cassette when I’m on the small chainring because the chain binds up. Switching to a 1x setup solves the problem of chain binding since I would put the chainring in the middle spot.

TheRealBicycleBuck > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 10:48

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While 2x10 has always been fine for my road bikes, I wouldn’t give up the granny on my mountain bike. Where I used to ride, we had a lot of really steep sections and the granny was what got me to the top.

If you are having issues with cross-chain binding, you might want to grab a gear calculator (like this one or this one ) and play with changing out chain rings and cassettes to find the sweet spot with minor modifications to your current 3x9 setup. It would be much cheaper to try out a smaller middle chainring to get the ratio you want than it would be to swap out the entire system - crank, bottom bracket (to get the proper spacing for the new crank), chainrings, cassette, shifters, and deraillers.

OPPOsaurus WRX > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 10:49

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maybe a new derailleur would do it. I almost never use the first front ring. the lowest I go is usually 2f/1r unless i’m on something crazy steep.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 10:50

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I would get a 11x36 rear cassette if you don’t already have one, your bike probably has an 11x32. Those 4 teeth would help. Also check the middle ring teeth count, if it is compact drive (and it should be unless old ass XTR) it should be a 32 tooth ring, if not get a 32 tooth ring. I’ve never had problems with this, usually 4 cogs down is equivalent to being in the middle ring and all the way up on the cassette. An asshole solution is to get a road bike and ride hills, you will get exponentially stronger and will never use the granny gear again.

OPPOsaurus WRX > maximillious 08/07/2015 at 10:51

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i bought a 29er. I find it to decrease agility, especially downhill. its really great for crosscountry but as soon as it gets technical, a smaller bike seems better.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:01

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Haha I enjoy that I do not understand anything going on in the comments here. I do a fair amount of mountain biking but I just use my cheapo $300 no-suspension GT Talera that I picked up used for $75. Makes for a real challenge on the rockier stuff! I am always intrigued on reading this type of stuff though since people definitely spend a ton more. Sorry that I don’t have anything useful to add.

PowderHound > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:02

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I do a lot of trail/XC and some mini bike park stuff around Park City. I ended up getting a new bike this year after a part on my old bike (hollowlink for an 04 stumpjumper) broke and they no longer make the part. I ended up getting a Santa Cruz Bantam 1x11 build from Backcountry for 32% off. Added a dropper post and pedals and it came in just a touch over 3k. Right around the tops of what I wanted to spend but I love it. The dropper post and 1x make it so much more enjoyable. Less complaining about which ring I should be in. It’s just “I need to shift up, I need to shift down”

The bike is a bit on the heavier side at 28-30lbs but it’s fun and I’m not trying to race so it is perfect for me.

bob and john > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:02

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then something else is wrong...i can run through all 10 of my gears in all rings no problem. check to make sure your drop outs arent bent, chain doesnt have any stiff links, and rear and front d-rails are alligned right

GTI Sprinks > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:23

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Also: if you do the 1x front, you may want to look into the wide-narrow chainring (shape of the tooth profile) so you don’t have to run a chain keeper. Pretty standard now, but a few years back a chain keeper/watcher was needed to keep that chain up front from jumping off when it gets bumpy.

HammerheadFistpunch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:23

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here is the trouble question: when did you last replace your chain? You binding may be a issue of worn rings due to stretched chain. Look at your cassette and your chainrings for shark like ramps, and measure center of chain pin to center of chain pin with a 12 inch ruler, if they don’t line up (center pin to center pin) at 12 inches and are more than 2 mm off, your chain is bad, if you have shark shaped teeth on your cassette or chainring then those are bad too.

replacing a chain keeps your gears from wearing, once your gears are worn, replacing a chain wont help...its new gears time.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > bob and john 08/07/2015 at 11:33

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It’s been that way since new. The bike shop put on a short cage derailleur and it really needed a long cage. Didn’t catch it until it was too late so I’ve lived with it.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > HammerheadFistpunch 08/07/2015 at 11:35

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It’s been that way since new. The bike shop put on a short cage derailleur and it should have been a long cage. I didn’t catch it, so it’s my fault.

That being said, what are your thoughts on putting a new drivetrain on a 9-10 year old frame?

bob and john > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:37

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well there is your freaking problem. put ohn the right cage and see how you like it then

HammerheadFistpunch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:38

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All my bikes are old, when my current 3x9 goes I will go 2x10. I’m in the process now of hunting for hubs to rebuild a rear wheel and it seems all the new hubs are 10/11 only for compatibility...so it may be sooner than later. What I mean to say though, is that if your gears are worn, you may be changing them all out anyway.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/07/2015 at 11:40

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If you’re having fun you’re doing it right. I’m finally getting back into riding regularly because a buddy of mine decided to dust off his ancient Trek this summer. I used to ride a lot when going to college, but then real life happened and biking was one of those things that I quit making time for. Now that there are other guys in my shape around that are getting into biking it is a lot of fun to go.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/07/2015 at 11:42

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I’m running an 11-34t cassette and 22/32/44 chainrings. If it comes to swapping out a cassette I’m going all out and doing the full 1x11 swap at that point.

I refuse to road bike. My policy is that unless I can keep up with traffic moving at the posted speed I don’t ride on the road.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > TheRealBicycleBuck 08/07/2015 at 11:45

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I’m way ahead of you on gear calculators, first I did max/min gearing by hand. This morning I fired up Excel and ran the Full Monty for what I’ve got now vs. swapping to 1x10, 1x11 and modifying my existing to run a 1x9. I don’t really care about losing top end, I just want to make sure I don’t lose on the bottom end.

TheRealBicycleBuck > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 11:56

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In that case, don’t forget about those gigantic sprockets that are available. With a long-cage derailler, you can update a standard 9 or 10 speed cassette with a 42-tooth sprocket.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > HammerheadFistpunch 08/07/2015 at 11:59

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I see what you’re saying. A few people have been suggesting swapping cassettes, and my thoughts were if it gets that far I’m going 1x11. Doing that loses me nothing on the bottom end and not enough on the top end to care about.

HammerheadFistpunch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 12:01

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make sure your hub is 11 speed capable, I haven’t don’e a ton of research on them, but I think the treads for the lock ring are different.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 14:14

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I do a lot of hiking too so I just enjoy the quiet of nature and how peaceful everything is. But mountain biking is even more fun because you get the same nature experience but you can travel further and faster. Plus a nice challenging trail will really be quite the adventure. Discovering unmarked trails that go on and on are the best. I don’t consider it a good biking day unless I get "lost" and have to just figure it out by guessing to get back where I started.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/07/2015 at 15:58

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Hmmm sounds like a pretty standard set up. Good luck!

Mattbob > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/11/2015 at 11:39

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can you get a new rear cassette with different ratios? Also, you could do some squats, wall sits, practice climbs, etc, and just be able to power up the climbs on your middle chain ring. isn’t there extra width involved in going to the 11 gear cassette? Also we need a bike sub blog on oppo.